and his challenger is heading into overdrive. one guy is going to survive this two-week drill between now and the last day, the other guy is going to go down big time, big time. everybody can see how close this is. the loser will get pilloried by his party. how can you be so sought of it? the closing struggle begins this weekend. then monday in boca raton, florida, for the final debate. this election is about the economy. president obama has two weeks to sell the country on what he'd do in a second term. he needs to ramp it all up. the policy that saved the auto industry and how this kind of active industrial policy can bring a surge in american manufacturing. he needs to push the overdue construction in this country, roadway, rail, brick and mortar investment, a campaign that will bring this country aggressively into the 21st century. he pushed that big jobs bill in his first weeks in office that kept the economy from heading off a cliff. he needs to show us what a second bill will look like. the more he paints a picture of

his second term economic building agenda, the better. chuck todd is nbc's chief white house correspondent and political director, and jonathan martin is politico's senior political reporter. i brought you on as the big brains. i was at the al smith dinner. a bunch of rich irish, i get it. the fact of the matter -- >> finger on the pulse. >> not regular. this thing seems to be drifting around. i don't want to bring a lot of numbers in. is there a drift, a turn, is it moving towards romney clearly ever since that first debate? is that a safe assessment or is it not? >> i think it moved clearly in romney's direction. i think it is now sort of sitting there. the question is does he still have a little momentum or did the president stop him? and, you know, that's -- >> so that's -- a little more momentum left, but he gained ground.

>> he gained a lot of ground. this is a coin flip race. it's about whether mitt romney can break through in the three midwestern states, ohio, iowa, and wisconsin. it's the only way the math works. >> you're implying it's going to be so close in the popular vote that these electoral decisions are going to really matter. >> i think they absolutely are going to matter. >> there's not going to be -- >> colorado and virginia -- >> you don't see a national mandate crossing the country -- >> not right now. i am still a believer that it's still possible. >> i think it's still possible. >> what do you think -- do you agree with him it basically moved a big space toward romney after that first debate and that sort of came to a still, that swing, or has it in your mind? >> i think it is still moving in romney's direction.

>> okay, fine. >> and i think one of two things are going to happen. either the obama campaign is going to sweat out an electoral vote victory where they put together a combination of the states chuck mentioned, iowa, wisconsin, and nevada, and romney can't get to 270 and they sweat out a tough race, negative race. they grind it down, and they get 275. or in the next couple days here we do see that national swing and romney does make sort of huge -- >> and sweeps it. >> at what point does it become a popular vote election? >> if romney moves. it could happen. it would only happen in the romney direction. >> if he has a strong movement the next two weeks that he had two weeks ago -- >> correct. >> -- is he a winner? >> it's hard to imagine -- absolutely, yes. >> let's look at the president today. let's look at "the daily show." the president tried to sell -- good job. i'm not sure he's done yet. let's watch. >> four years ago i said i'd end the war in iraq. we did. said i would pass health care reforms, make sure people don't go bankrupt when they get sick. we have. said we had to refocus on al qaeda. we have. made sure that we saved an auto industry that was on the brink

of collapse. we've done that. so we've got a very strong story to tell whether it's on social issues like don't ask, don't tell or economic issues that matter for middle class families. >> does that lean forward enough or is that just the past? >> it feels like the past, but one of the odder things we're seeing in the polling is the right track/wrong track is moving in the direction that should be helping the president. and yet mitt romney is the one making -- is still making gains even as people feel better, both with the job the president is doing -- this is what's weird about this. this is not a seesaw. the romney move up is not correlating with some sort of obama going down on his job rating. >> right. >> and that is -- >> could it be that the president outran his string? could it be he outran his string? his good news came too late? >> that's a very strong possibility. >> the housing market is up, job claims are going down -- >> but it came two months too late. i think the best thing to happen to romney was that first debate. you had 70 million people who finally saw him, not the caricature in the tv ads.

they saw him in the flesh. i'll tell you what, i have been talking to a lot of swing folks in places like new hampshire, places like florida last couple days. operatives in both parties in those swing states, and they say that was a huge moment because for the first time people saw, yes, this is somebody who could be a plausible alternative. it doesn't mean they were willing to sort of buy the house, but, yeah, i can live here. >> they let him in the house. once you let him in the house, it's hard to say get out of the house. >> here is a fun -- >> he's sitting on the recliner. >> here is a fun nugget about the first debate. the time between the first and second debate, it's the longest period of time between a first and second debate since 1988. that's also what hurt the president and helped romney. he got two weeks of momentum out of this debate. the president needed -- >> he's got five weeks to live off that first debate between that election -- >> he lived off it for longer than mondale got with reagan. he lived it on longer -- >> unemployment -- the employment numbers are getting

better in 41 states. i thought the joke last night, you're asking me about the al smith dinner. romney made fun of obama by saying you can say based on the september numbers you're better off than you were four weeks ago. i mean, they're starting to put down the fact of this late recovery. >> that could be a huge challenge. the idea that the vp debate, chris, or the debate at hofstra earlier this week were going to somehow turn this around for obama, it hasn't happened yet. >> it's slowed it down. i think you're seeing evidence that it sort of -- romney didn't lose any ground. he didn't peel anything, but i think the president stopped the erosion. >> let me ask you about this question of what you think. i know you don't want to take political positions or partisan positions, but i will.

in fact, this is an analysis. i think the american people will not vote for nothing. they're not going to vote for obama's track record, not vote for romney's business know-how. they're looking for a plan they can say, when i voted, it meant something. i have heard people say, i like this guy romney because he had that five-point plan, he had something i could see. business guy, i'm going to do these things. obama has done a lot more at the national level than romney ever thought of doing, but he doesn't turn it into a future map. he said i have done the automobile, i did the stimulus, did health care, but where does that point to what they're going to do? >> their investment and theory of the case is the way to get re-elected in this environment is to render romney as unacceptable. >> doesn't work. what do we do now? >> they're still doing it. look at today, for example -- >> look at the president today. cue it up.

let's show the president because i agree with you. instead of trying to build the case for the president staying in the game, being kept in as starting pitcher, they keep making the case against the guy in the bull pen, and i don't think that's the way it works. here he is this afternoon, the president called out romney for shifting positions on issues like equal pay, women's health, taxes, and coining a new phrase for his opponent's condition. let's watch him. >> i mean, he's changing up so much and backtracking and side stepping, we've got to name this condition he's going through. i think -- i think it's called romnesia. that's what it's called. and if you come down with a case of romnesia and you can't seem to remember the policies that are still on your website or the promises you've made over the six years you've been running for president, here is the good news. obama care covers pre-existing conditions! we can fix you up! we got a cure! >> we've got a big fight coming up later in the show about women and this whole thing, and you

two guys are going to talk about it as distant people here, males, but is that going to be an issue here now because i saw those younger women there. i saw cecile richards introduced him in northern virginia today. my question is without a gender gap, can a democrat win? >> no. no chance. no chance. they have to. >> because if the issue is health, education, it's women's rights, the whole plethora of issues. >> that's why when you see the race this close and then you'll see some polls that will be a two or three-point race but there's no gender gap, you're like, throw that poll out. there's a gender gap in american politics. >> kathleen turner and tough hombres in a minute, not just you guys, but my question is how can one guy one night, he walks in, very impressive, even pushy. he is -- he's a bully. and yet he seemed to impress a

lot of women, romney. >> sure. >> why does his manner impress people? >> the perception of him, as haley barbour said, he was an out of touch plutocrat married to a known equestrian. when people saw he was a serious politician, not the thurston howell character, it helped him. i think that's still the case. >> you don't think he was that guy? i thought -- he looked like a big business big shot. >> but by the way, in the first debate you said he was kind of a bully. no, he wasn't in the first debate. i thought there was a civility to him. >> covering up for lack of deference. >> on the obama care issue -- >> he did little subtle things that i thought he made a mistake not doing in the second debate. that he was too aggressive and too hot. >> hold on, you'll get your chance. can you imagine if obama had done that to a sitting president? >> they would have brought the police in. >> it was not a good moment for him there. i thought the first debate what helped romney is that it came across with a civility.

it was toughness with a smile. >> right. >> it was toughness with a deference. >> pushy but without -- >> covering it up. >> a bit of cordiality about the wedding anniversary, and then a lot of good civility. he didn't call him mr. obama, he called him mr. president. throughout there's a lack of deference. >> that's what a challenger has to do when you're running against the president. >> treat him like he's not president. >> make him think you're as presidential as the actual president. you have been through this. >> anyway, thank you. i wouldn't be that kind. i think he was so lacking in deference it was -- >> the second debate he lacked deference. >> the first time he masked it. chuck todd, thank you, gentlemen, smart guys. jonathan martin. coming up, the battle for the female vote can't help republicans when congressman joe walsh says concern for the health of the woman is just an excuse to have an abortion. kathleen turner comes here, the kathleen turner, to fight the fight for women. also, it got hot in senate debates across the country. check out that bout between

sherrod brown and his republican opponent, josh mandel. >> being called a liar, a liar, by the winner of the pants on crown fire is just a pretty remarkable thing for a young man to say or for a man of any age to say in a political debate. >> that was one of the many roundhouse punches thrown last night in senate debates around the country. we're going to bring you the important action. it's going to get hot here. and monday, the last of the presidential debates coming up now. this one on foreign policy. a home game for the president, but the president needs to put out the bottom line on what happened in benghazi and get it over with. let me finish with this from the past trying to take charge of the country's future. what a bunch of troglodytes out there. this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ owner ] i need to expand to meet the needs of my growing business. but how am i going to fund it? and i have to find a way to manage my cash flow better.

[ female announcer ] our wells fargo bankers are here to listen, offer guidance and provide you with options tailored to your business. we've loaned more money to small businesses than any other bank for ten years running. so come talk to us to see how we can help. wells fargo. together we'll go far. with the parents and the cute little baby triplets... well wait until your triplets move back home after college. we were enjoying our empty nest. and now it's just a nest full of laundry. lucky underwear. we were going through so much of that bargain detergent... and the clothes didn't look as good. but since we switched to tide, we use much less. their clothes are looking much more...uh... what's the word? clean? employable. [ female announcer ] one cap of tide gives you more cleaning power than 6 caps of the bargain brand. [ mom ] that's my tide, what's yours? we've got some new polling in battleground states. let's start in colorado where a new ppp poll shows president

obama up three, close there, over mitt romney. all-important 50% mark. that's good for the president, obama, 50%, romney, 47%. iowa, romney up by one. 49% to 48%. that's a big difference from our nbc news/"wall street journal"/maris poll. same score in new hampshire where ppp has romney up by one. finally in michigan, president obama is maintaining his lead. a new poll shows the president up by six. that's pretty comfortable these days, 52%, 46%. these numbers are gyrating, as i told you. we'll be right back. when it comes to issues ♪

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when it comes to issues critical to women, the right to make your own decision about your health, the right to be

treated fairly and equally in the workplace, governor romney wants to take us to policies more suited to the 1950s. >> that's for sure. anyway, welcome back. president obama campaigned today in virginia, northern virginia there. george mason. kept the focus on women. a lot of young women there, and also cecile richards introduced him. the republican party has taken issues related to women that can only be described as extreme. we'll run through the list including a gop platform that criminalizes abortion. now we've got a new entry following his debate last night. the illustrious, i mean that totally sarcastically, joe walsh said allowing an exception for abortion when the mother's life is at risk is not scientifically or medically necessary. >> this is an issue that opponents of life throw out there to make us look unreasonable. there's no such exception as

life of the mother, and as far as health of the mother, same thing. with advances in science and technology, there is -- health of the mother has been -- has become a tool for abortions any time under any reason. >> and this quote, unbelievable the way these guys are talking, scientific theory to todd akin's theory to back it up that women don't get pregnant from a legitimate rape. in other words, if they don't want to get pregnant, they aren't getting pregnant. anyway, here is a sign of how important democrats believe abortion rights are to their fate. this chart shows the number of ads for democratic candidates on this issue, the blue one up there, and all races that mention abortion, contraception, and funding for planned

parenthood have increased much more than for republicans in red. joining us is activist and actor kathleen turner. and managing editor of thegrio.com, joy reid. two great women to talk about it. they don't want to call it a war on women, but i got to tell you, this guy walsh again the other day said, my mother was told not to have any more kids at the risk of her life. this is what happens. this is real. how could he just come along and say you can't get pregnant if you get raped. they throw this stuff out. >> what's scary is he and akins are by no means the exceptions. i mean, this is going on continually in every state across our country. the idea -- the cdc has stated that availability of contraception and a woman's ability to control her reproductive life has been the greatest health advancement in the 20th century leading to the greatest economic rise in that women can now have higher degrees, earn higher hourly wages, 40% of women earn more than their husbands. so this is not simply a question

of women's right. it is also an economic question. >> my question to joy, we call this a women's issue because it's women who primarily take responsibility for contraception. both engage in sex, both knowing there's no protection going on and not taking responsibility when that happens, but women have to be the first responders you might say because they've got to live with it. here is the question. here is the question. why don't men and women both say birth control is a darn good thing? we should make sure it's available to women who are working. as resplendently and prodigiously as possible. spread it around, birth control, get it out there. we want to reduce the number of abortions, unwanted pregnancies. do something about it, stop talking about it and passing bills that don't mean anything. your thoughts. >> and a guy like joe walsh who won't even pay his child support. he won't take responsibility for the births he's directly responsible for producing. chris has a great point, but birth control has become yet another part of the culture wars, and you have guys like walsh that have taken this hard and fast position which is anti-abortion.

just to give statistics to mr. walsh in case he needs to be educated on them, maternal death still happens in this country. the united states is 39th in the world behind countries like greece and germany. albania has a better rate in terms of maternal death versus places like houston. specifically, especially in red states where you have got something like 16 deaths, maternal deaths per 100,000 births according to a study in atlanta in 2010. this is still a very real problem and there are still very real women dying -- >> let's get off sex -- i want to get off sex for a minute and obviously reproductive rights. i want to say something about equal pay. why has governor romney refused to say as of this moment, friday afternoon at 5:00 eastern time, he's refused to say why he's against the equal pay bill. he won't say whether he's for or against. >> i don't think it's just about the equal pay. i think he's obviously not

giving many specifics about almost anything. i wanted to follow up on your point about contraceptives being something that both men and women must be for. i'm chairman of the board -- >> i know that. you were at the beginning. >> one of the things i believe we have great common ground on is the fact that what we want is no child unwanted. >> yeah. >> that every child should be wanted. which means every child should be planned. and given those conditions, the ability to access, when you see this new ad about a woman saying, oh, well, romney is not against contraception at all, this is ridiculous because it doesn't mean contraception is even available to that woman whether romney personally is for it or not. >> he means it's legal. that's the nonsensical -- >> it doesn't mean the woman can get her hands on it. >> he only did that to basically be dishonest. the issue is not legality. that was decided in the '50s.

it's access, availability, affordability. joy, i always wonder about the beat reporters following romney around. when he says that malarkey, or whatever the latest irish-ism we're supposed to use, when he says that, i'm still for access, it's clearly -- i hate saying it's lying -- he's dishonest about it. he's not answering the question of should it be in your health care plan. should any employer be able to deny it to a woman. >> he's the ultimate niche marketer. whatever audience he's in front of he's saying what he needs to get elected. romney seems to be a person that's an empty vessel willing to be filled with whatever he thinks is politically expedient at literally that moment. you get the feeling five minutes later he could say, i have changed my mind, i'm now against contraception. his wife backed that up on "the view."

they're testing the proposition that voters are so shallow and are not paying any attention whatsoever except for the moment that he's speaking to them. >> let me make a case to you. you're the expert. a couple things i want to get to. it isn't just about sex and reproductive rights and abortion. that's the way the republican right likes to paint it. if you're a woman, you generally take the primary responsibility for the older parents. you call them, keep up with their health care, and you make sure they're taking advantage of medicare. you know women are going to live longer. they just do. so women are much more concerned about social security being there for them. social security and medicare. there's a whole range of issues women have a more personal interest in than men, and why in heck would a woman vote for romney and against those issues? >> i cannot imagine.

i cannot understand this at all. i mean, i think that this election should be -- women should be to this election what the youth were in 2008. what i do not understand and i'm very fearful of is the fact that women are so underrepresented, and we are the majority in this country, and our needs, we accept the fact that our needs are not prioritized. i find this very difficult to understand. >> well, the squeaky wheel. >> yeah. >> just to add to that point, i think democrats have a harder job typically in elections. democrats are trying to defend this big social compact, these big ideas from the 20th century whether it's social security and medicare, women's rights and access to an abortion, these are all of these big sort of amorphous things democrats are saying we're here to defend the past and defend the gains. republicans have a much simpler job, just don't pay attention to any of that. jobs. don't pay attention to that. unemployment. they're driving home this very specific message, including to female voters. that's what romney is doing. he's saying ignore all of these big generalizations that the democrats are talking about that

you take for granted. >> remember what the governor said the other day. he was asked if he would sign a bill outlawing abortion across the country. he said it would be a terrific idea. he'd love to have nine scalias on the court. kathleen, glad to have you back. and we will have you back. thank you very much. and joy reid -- kathleen is starring right here in washington in the play called "red hot patriot" the kick ass wit of the great molly ivins. up next -- you and molly ivins, what a pair. up next, highlights from last night's al smith dinner where president obama made a special apology to me. i didn't need it. this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ female announcer ] with swiffer dusters,

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mitt's got big plans right out of the gate. >> i will repeal obama care and stop it in its tracks on day one. starting on day one, i'm going to do what it takes to get america back to work. i will on day one put a halt to all the regulations that were put in during the obama years. >> mitt is going to keep those promises i know because i have his day one schedule right here.

8:00 a.m. to noon, inauguration. 12:30, appoint cabinet. 1:00, take photo for white house i.d. card. 1:07, retake photo. 1:45, repeal obama care. 4:00, pick nuclear launch codes, maybe zip code plus ann's birthday, question mark? >> back to "hardball." first to last night's al smith dinner up in new york. as you can see, i was up on the dais at the big event seated right behind president obama and mitt romney. here is the view i had from my seat. i have to say, thanks to tom moran and his global food program concern for taking this

great photo right in front of us there. in his own joke-laden speech, the president made a specific apology regarding his performance in the first debate. >> i particularly want to apologize to chris matthews. four years ago i gave him a thrill up his leg. this time around i gave him a stroke. >> a better shot of me sitting right over there. that was something. now to more of the night featuring both presidential candidates. >> a campaign can require a lot of wardrobe changes. blue jeans in the morning perhaps, a suit for a lunch fund-raiser, sport coat for dinner, but it's nice to finally relax and wear what ann and i wear around the house. >> i went shopping at some stores in midtown. i understand governor romney went shopping for some stores in midtown. sometimes it feels like this race has dragged on forever. but paul ryan assured me that we've only been running for two hours and 50-something minutes. >> don't be surprised if the president mentions this evening the monthly jobs report where there was a slight improvement in the numbers. >> the unemployment rate is at its lowest level since i took office. i don't have a joke here. i just thought it would be useful to remind everybody. >> president obama and i are each very lucky to have one person who is always in our corner. someone who is a comforting presence without whom we wouldn't be able to go into the

day. i have my beautiful wife, ann. he has bill clinton. >> spoiler alert, we got bin laden. >> actually it was mostly a pillow fight, especially by the president. now the big debate, not the presidential one. earlier this week i showed you part of my encounter with bill o'reilly for jon stewart's autism benefit "night of too many stars." there was a lot where that came from. o'reilly and i had strict guidelines to stick to in our debate. take a look. >> you know the rules of the debate. neither participant shall be permitted to speak without first filling their lungs with helium. the participants may continue to speak only if the helium has kept up the pitch of their voice. >> we have to start now. why don't you ask a question.

>> you inhale, they decide. >> that means like it or lump it. >> our annual deficits are now above -- you might want a little more -- $1 trillion a year. the president says it's time to raise taxes on the rich. governor romney says that would inhibit job creation. >> well, i don't agree with that. >> i say we have to go back to the clinton tax rates and get the hell out of afghanistan. >> you can catch the full production if you want to this sunday on comedy central at 8:00 a.m. eastern. up next, if you thought this week's presidential debate got hot, wait until you see what happens in some senate debates around the country last night. it was like thursday night fights, and we've got the highlights next. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. we saw that last tide commercial with the parents and the cute little baby triplets... well wait until your triplets move back home after college. we were enjoying our empty nest. and now it's just a nest full of laundry. lucky underwear. we were going through so much of that bargain detergent... and the clothes didn't look as good.

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here's what's happening. an explosion in beirut killed a top intelligent official. it occurred during rush hour in a mostly christian area. a cease fire was called for in syria and the state department p is calling for the assad regime to allow humanitarian aid in. and doctors say that she can communicate. back to "hardball." back to "hardball." some fireworks in some key races last night, senate races. showed in the down ballot debates how exciting they can be and contentious. in ohio, wisconsin, connecticut, virginia, and missouri last night, just last night, red and blue faced off.

with me is david corn and politico's senior washington correspondent, jonathan allen. let's take a look at the action from the always interesting state of ohio. here is republican josh mandel challenging sherrod brown in ohio. they kept up the attacks against each other. here they are in last night's debate going at it. >> senator, you are a liar. you're falsely attacking me, and i won't stand for it. you might want to try to push people around in washington, but you're not going to push me around. >> being called a liar? a liar? by the winner of the pants on crown fire is just a pretty remarkable thing for a young man to say or for a man of any age to say in a political debate. josh mandel, as we know, has trouble telling the truth. we can't trust josh mandel to do his job, to show up for work. >> i must be getting old, he

looked 10 years old. is he a real threat? >> it's ohio, a key state, obviously a lot of money going in on the presidential side. the interesting thing, what they were referencing is mandel ran an ad saying that sherrod brown was responsible for all the jobs lost from ohio to china and elsewhere, and politifact.com, the fact checking organization, gave him a pants on fire rating for that ad, and he got that rating and said, great, i'm going to run this ad again and again and again. >> that's the new thing. if you're caught not telling the truth, you say i'm not going to let my campaign be run by fact checkers. >> that's right. and what you end up seeing is everybody calls each other liars in debates. there's a house -- >> don't we need candy crowley to be available and just come out, i'm candy crowley, he's right, he's wrong. >> i'm surprised you didn't pick an msnbc host. >> in wisconsin tommy thompson and his democratic opponent, a republican opponent, tammy -- democratic opponent tammy

baldwin sparred over each other's positions in iran. this gets tricky. you're in the weeds here, but let's watch. >> you have tens of thousands of dollars in investments in companies that do business with iran, including a company that teams up with iran doing uranium mining in africa. >> she also received $60,000 in the campaign funds, $60,000, ladies and gentlemen, for a campaign from a company that believes and supports no sanctions in iran. i heard about this stuff -- >> who are you talking about? you can't even -- >> wait a minute, let me finish. let me finish. you had two minutes. let me finish. you want to interrupt me, joe biden, just give me a chance. the other thing is, ladies and gentlemen, is that she's talking about stock. i didn't know about the fact that my stockbroker had purchased two shares -- two company stocks. i sold it. >> what is this about? this is what -- this is why people hate politics. they dig into somebody's stock portfolio. probably never spent three seconds looking at it. she gets the aid of $60,000 from a company that doesn't believe in sanctions. she's now vulnerable, but she quibbles over the name of the group. is that what it's come down to,

knowing the name of the group on live television? now, she gets aid of $60,000 from a company and now she's vulnerable or quibbles over the name of the group. is that what's it's come down to, knowing the name of the group on live television? >> it does come down to that to a certain degree. you hear the audience booing him a little bit -- >> because of the biden reference. >> he got booed a couple times for acting more like a bully and interrupting, and tommy thompson, his big advantage in that state is he walks into any room and what do people say,

they go, tommy. really well-known, great name recognition. if he's going on these debates and coming across as a bully and people are seeing him in a different light, it's more damaging to him than the $60,000 iranian stock charge. >> if she's getting 60,000 bucks from an organization that says let's trade with iran, that's radioactive. >> you can't get $60,000 from a company -- >> the big underlying issue is israel. tammy baldwin has been a liberal on israel issues. tommy thompson has been hammering her for that. and then she found something she could knock him back with. you own stock in companies that are -- >> let's look at connecticut. i love this race. democratic congressman chris murphy called out republican linda mcmahon, and she's been tough in this case, for being vague on her positions. let's watch. >> i've not talked about specifics when i have been on the campaign trail because they get demagogued. >> she says that she's going to get demagogued. that maybe is a different way of saying she's going to lose votes. you might lose votes if you take a position, but that's our responsibility as candidates, to tell folks what we do.

>> linda mcmahon just parroted, absolutely echoed, what romney has been saying and, what's his name, paul ryan is saying. i can't tell you what deductions i'm going to get rid of, i can't tell you how my tax plan is going to work because you will use it against me. >> you don't expect a world wrestling federation owner to duck and weave so much, but she was obviously doing it there. this points out what's a problem for a lot of politicians right now, which is you're either talking about raising taxes or cutting spending and taking away government services. there are no good options for the future. >> or spending money. >> or running up the deficit. there are no good options. >> it's all bitter out there. >> that's why nobody is saying -- >> what do people want to run for office? they can't do anything new. they say, you want to borrow from china for that. you can't even fix the light bulbs in the government. let the light bulb be dead out

for a while, save the money. >> jonathan is right. this is sort of a new development, which is the candidates saying i'd like to tell you, but i can't because it's going to hurt my chances, my prospects. they say it so brazenly, it's like, okay, that makes sense to me. it really doesn't, but mitt romney is tied in the polls, and he has demonstrated again and again that he can actually succeed with this, that he doesn't get laughed out of the room. she should have been laughed out of the debate hall. >> i read "the new york post," a conservative newspaper obviously, i read the paper. do you know every one of the letters on the letters side of the op-ed page attacked candy crowley for being right. you can't be right. >> no. >> that's intervening here. thank you. great to have you on, jonathan, thank you, david, as always. up next, monday's third and final presidential debate, and it's all about foreign policy. that should be friendly terrain for the president, he's good at it, but there may be trouble if the administration can't get his story clear on libya. i think its his chance to end this discussion, put a bottom line on what happened, what we knew, when we knew it, and what we could have done and what we couldn't have done. this is "hardball," the place for politics. 38 mpg highway... advanced headlights... and zero gravity seats?

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we're back. with each passing day last month's attack in benghazi becomes a bigger headache for the president. mitt romney and the republicans think they've hit on a strong issue to go after the president. they accuse his administration of not coming clean about the . they accuse his add traministra of not coming clean about the nature of the attack. the associated press reported, quote, the cia station chief in libya reported to washington within 24 hours of last month's deadly attack on the u.s. consulate that it was evidence it was carried off by militants, not a spontaneous mob about a video ridiculing prophet muhammad. it's not clear when that information got to the white house. it ensures questions won't go away. what is the truth about what happened in benghazi, who was responsible? was it planned or spontaneous? what most importantly was the --

david sanger is chief washington correspondent for "the new york times." david, i want to go to you. i've been reading a lot of "the times" about this. i guess the question is what are the charges being made by romney and the other republicans is this was motivated by a plan to do something of a terrorist style on 9/11, nothing to do with the video that was made in los angeles which ridiculed the prophet. was the motivation a planned 9/11 marking by a terrorist group or was it an opportunistic move which jumped on this video and used that as a cause to attack? which one? >> well, chris, based on the reporting we've had out of cairo from my great colleague david kirkpatrick it seems to line up very well with what we're hearing from u.s. intelligence forces, is that this was motivated some by the video but that the group that did it were militants and looking for an excuse. you can ask the question, would

they have done something on september 11th even absent the video in i don't think i've got, at least, right now sufficient clarity on that question. what we do know is there was no demonstration that turned into a bigger militant attack. in fact, it began as a militant attack. it may have been motivated in part by word of the video which, of course, was spreading from egypt and other places. the protests in egypt had been just a few hours before. >> well, how did ambassador rice get the idea, she presented on all those five interview shows sunday it started as a demonstration, a protest demonstration we've seen so many places around the world these days? where did that come from? >> the account we heard so far is she was relying on the intelligence reports they'd gotten up until the saturday before she went on the air. she was pretty strong on the air as saying this began as a protest. that view got rapidly revised by

the intel country community. i think the other interesting question to ask, chris, i haven't heard the candidates asking but strikes me as the most interest one which is, what did the intel community know about the general threat against both tripoli and the benghazi consulate? leading up to 9/11. it would have been a good reason to be an guard on 9/11 for the anniversary even if that didn't turn out to be the cause. it looks like there was a fair bit of threat report. >> what could they have done to deal with the threat? i mean, you can't put an extra ten marines in somewhere. let me go to ann garen, first. same points i'd like to raise with you with "washington post," ann. does wrr reporting say the video has something to with triggering this act of terror against our consulate in benghazi? >> well, yes, but sort of in the reverse from the way it was reported earlier and the way susan rice initially described it.

rather than it being a spontaneous protest outside the embassy gates or the mission gates, mirroring the one earlier in the day in cairo, this has emerged quite clearly as a planned attack which was likely inspired by anger over the video. but a group of militants who saw their opportunity and took it. and then once the gates were breached, and there was an actual attack going on, a protest followed. so there was a protest. there was a video involved. there was an attack. but the order appears to have been reversed. >> i learned a lot. thank you both. i do understand now. it was somewhat used or opportunistically using the video but it was a militant group and not really a protest beginning this whole operation. we're going hear a lot more about this monday night.

anne gearen, thank you so much and david sanger, as always. when we return, let me finish with the stuck in the past republican party that wants to control the country us future. you're watching "hardball." the place for politics. we were enjoying our empty nest. and now it's just a nest full of laundry. lucky underwear. we were going through so much of that bargain detergent... and the clothes didn't look as good. but since we switched to tide, we use much less. their clothes are looking much more...uh... what's the word? clean? employable. [ female announcer ] one cap of tide gives you more cleaning power than 6 caps of the bargain brand. [ mom ] that's my tide, what's yours?

let me finish tonight with this. i don't know where these people are coming from. the senate candidate out in missouri who says

women don't get pregnant if they are raped and then this odd duck who says a woman cannot lose her life or risk serious harm in child delivery. that's a new one. if someone extracted the climate change despite the fact people up in alaska where i was for a conference recently are talking about commercial shipping soon being able to pass easily over the north pole, the north swrn west passage, talk bt believing the planet is only a few thousand years old, a religious belief, i suppose, ignoring the bones left from the ages past. the skeletons of large animals and all the oil we used from deep in the ground built up over the millions of years this planet has been here vegetating and filled with life. this anti-science looniness is emerging with women. don't let them have quality at work, don't let them have birth control in their plans. all this from the same intellectual peanut gallery that denies the progress of man and women kind.

these people who believe most of all in not believing. what a crowd to turn over our future to, people who don't have a grip on the past except the part they want to go back to. that's the "hardball" for now. monday night is the third and final presidential debate between president obama and mitt romney. i'll be live from boca raton for m msnbc's live debate coverage. the debate begins at 9:00 p.m. eastern. "the ed show" with ed schultz starts right now. good evening, americans, and welcome to "the ed show" live from freeport, illinois. across the street there's a company that made $500 million net profit last year, but that wasn't enough. they want more. so they shipped the jobs to china. i don't like mitt romney's economic model, and neither should you. this is "the ed show." let's get to work. the question is, what kind of vision do you have for this country? >> is it mitt romney's vision or greed and wealth? or pre